GPS coordinates

[hoffmann]

It would be useful to complete the address of a venue by a field (or fields) for GPS coordinates (especially if the meeting is of conference or school type). The rooms at CERN are referenced by the CERN maps system, but outside CERN the usual reference is GPS and Google Maps or OpenStreetMap?.

On the display page, the coordinates could be completed by links like

​http://www.openstreetmap.de/karte.html?zoom=17&lat=43.125&lon=6.254

for example for 43.125°N 6.254°E.

[pferreir]

The room information can be fed to a custom URL that can then resolve these coordinates in whatever way.
e.g. https://maps.cern.ch/mapsearch/mapsearch.htm?loc=['{building}/{floor}-{roomNr}']

If you have that information for your institution, then you can simply create a small web app that takes a URL containing that information and makes a redirect to the corresponding GPS coordinates.
Or are you talking about resolving the actual address that is provided on the meeting page?

[hoffmann]

I think there is a slight misunderstanding. You propose a solution for the problem: "I enter CPPM, amphitheatre and want to use ​http://cppm.in2p3.fr/mapsearch/mapsearch.html?loc=[CPPM/amphitheatre] to indicate the way to go. That is also fine and good to know, but not what I wanted. And I doubt that each and every institute would develop their own mapsearch application. In addition, we may have the situation where a CPPM meeting is organised with CERN InDiCo?. Then it would not help.

I was asking for something more general. In addition to the existing fields Location and Room I suggest to have two fields for longitude and latitude in GPS coordinates. If they are filled, then they are displayed (doh!) and also a link to ​http://www.openstreetmap.de/karte.html?zoom=17&lat={latitude}&lon={longitude} is offered to the visitors. That would work for everybody.
It would not be a compatible extension of the CERN mapsearch application, but the CERN solution is fine and does not need to be replaced. What is missing is a working map system for locations outside CERN (like congress centres for ATLAS meetings in Copenhagen).

[pferreir]

OK, I get it. I'm sorry, I had misunderstood it.

There are two problems with your approach, in my opinion:

• "latitude" and "longitude" are not very user-friendly parameters. At least, let's let the user pick the location from a map (or even geolocate the address that they fill in "address";
• even though it's true that one thing doesn't stop the other from working, what I think everyone would like to see is a solution that works mostly OK for everyone.

I see it like this:

• "Room" and "Location" are one thing
• "Address" is something else
• You cannot have both at the same time
• "Address" is geolocated using a specific service (the user can correct it manually using a map interface)
• "Latitude" and "Longitude" get saved but are never shown to the user

I think it's more or less what you are looking for with the added constraint that you won't have competing information about that specific location.

Of course this is not a change that is as simple as adding two fields, but it looks more user-friendly and less prone to problems to me.

Of course the ideal solution would be a central list of rooms/locations in HEP which we could use in a cross-server fashion (together with the above).

[hoffmann]

Replying to pferreir:

There are two problems with your approach, in my opinion:

• "latitude" and "longitude" are not very user-friendly parameters. At least, let's let the user pick the location from a map (or even geolocate the address that they fill in "address";

Most venues have this information on their website now. So it is easy, faster and more reliable than picking a place on a map after searching. Also the information is most useful when I want to enter the GPS coordinates into my car's GPS. (It cannot read scanned maps ;-)

I see it like this:

• "Room" and "Location" are one thing
• "Address" is something else

No! Why? CPPM (location, 163 avenue de Luminy / 13009 Marseille (address), salle du conseil (room) are all three necessary to find your way to the meeting I have in mind. You would probably appreciate GPS coordinates, if you come by car.

• You cannot have both at the same time

On the contrary, I would say, you would sometimes like to have all (see previous sentence).

• "Address" is geolocated using a specific service (the user can correct it manually using a map interface)

Nice to have, but not essential.

• "Latitude" and "Longitude" get saved but are never shown to the user

No. :-)

I think it's more or less what you are looking for with the added constraint that you won't have competing information about that specific location.

"complementary", not "competing".

Of course this is not a change that is as simple as adding two fields, but it looks more user-friendly and less prone to problems to me.

Adding two fields would be my preferred solution. Showing them in clear and mangled into a map link would be cool (and almost for free anyway).

Of course the ideal solution would be a central list of rooms/locations in HEP which we could use in a cross-server fashion (together with the above).

No, I think your view is too narrow. I do not think about typical HEP locations (that everybody knows anyway after 10 years in the field, or he knows someone who knows). I have an off-the-job training in Résidence Odalys, nothing to do with HEP, and maybe only used once in a lifetime. However, exactly these locations (once in a lifetime) would profit from additional GPS information (that I have to put into the address field now anyway, with a link to the map masqueraded as "material".
Then the typical HEP locations would profit from it as well, but it's not the prime goal (for me).

[pferreir]

Most venues have this information on their website now. So it is easy, faster and more reliable than picking a place on a map after searching. Also the information is most useful when I want to enter the GPS coordinates into my car's GPS. (It cannot read scanned maps ;-)

So, for you, inserting an address and getting back a map pointing to it is not OK? We can still provide the coordinates if that's the problem. Or even KML files for Google Earth :)

No! Why? CPPM (location, 163 avenue de Luminy / 13009 Marseille (address), salle du conseil (room) are all three necessary to find your way to the meeting I have in mind. You would probably appreciate GPS coordinates, if you come by car.

What I mean is: if you know it's in "Salle du Conseil", there are coordinates for it and there is an address. OK, right now in Indico we do not have that address associated with the Location, but we could easily add a field to the "Location" entity.
Or, put in another way, there's no need to customise an address if the system can infer it from the location. Indico knows that 513-1-005 is at CERN, and could as well know that CERN is located at "Route de Meyrin". Moreover, it knows the exact coordinates to the room.

• "Latitude" and "Longitude" get saved but are never shown to the user

No. :-)

OK, you are right there. We could display them. Still, they're not essential information. Your GPS can also understand street names and cities, can't it?

Showing them in clear and mangled into a map link would be cool (and almost for free anyway).

OK, we agree on that. I think our disagreement concerns the source of the information, not so much how it will be presented.

I have an off-the-job training in Résidence Odalys, nothing to do with HEP, and maybe only used once in a lifetime. However, exactly these locations (once in a lifetime) would profit from additional GPS information (that I have to put into the address field now anyway, with a link to the map masqueraded as "material".

And inputting the address of Résidence Odalys (or even just the name), which Indico would resolve to GPS coordinates and display on a map (which you could fine-tune yourself), and then provide you with a display of the coordinates, a link to OSM (or Google Maps, Bing, etc.) and possibly XML files for your GPS would not be OK?

[hoffmann]

Replying to pferreir:

So, for you, inserting an address and getting back a map pointing to it is not OK? We can still provide the coordinates if that's the problem. Or even KML files for Google Earth :)

Yes, it would be nice to have an address translated into GPS coordinates, but not a strong requirement.

Address translation would not work in many places in Marseilles. Try 163 avenue de Luminy (for CPPM), on Google, which is the same nonsense as in my GPS for this special case. (Middle of nowhere.) 184 avenue de Luminy would be closer for the Google result, but not an address that anybody sensible would relate to CPPM.

What I mean is: if you know it's in "Salle du Conseil", there are coordinates for it and there is an address. OK, right now in Indico we do not have that address associated with the Location, but we could easily add a field to the "Location" entity.
Or, put in another way, there's no need to customise an address if the system can infer it from the location. Indico knows that 513-1-005 is at CERN, and could as well know that CERN is located at "Route de Meyrin". Moreover, it knows the exact coordinates to the room.

Yes but for practical purposes outside CERN, I am afraid the ability to translate addresses and rooms into coordinates would always be incomplete.

OK, you are right there. We could display them. Still, they're not essential information. Your GPS can also understand street names and cities, can't it?

It only works most of the time. GPS coordinates work always. That's my point.

And inputting the address of Résidence Odalys (or even just the name), which Indico would resolve to GPS coordinates and display on a map (which you could fine-tune yourself), and then provide you with a display of the coordinates, a link to OSM (or Google Maps, Bing, etc.) and possibly XML files for your GPS would not be OK?

No, because I would have to tell you (or InDiCo) which room and which part of the residence we are using here (Ile d'Or or Océanides). ;) Well, it would be fine, if it worked for some standard locations (CPPM, Odalys La Londe and Odalys Cabriès and why not Balcons d'Annecy). But how do I enter this information into an InDiCo instance that I do not manage myself? We will never be able to enter all possible and imaginable venues for meetings, conferences and schools, I am afraid.
So I think it is better to have the possibility to enter (or correct!) GPS coordinates by default, and an option to derive/suggest them from the "location" and "address".